I’ve been thinking about this one a LOT. I’m very against staff, admin, and above putting anything religious in schools. It too quickly becomes problematic, and it takes away from learning. I have yet to see something like this recent Louisiana’s Ten Commandments law turn out well, short OR long term. Do you want Satanists and Wiccans and Muslims to have stuff in schools? If not, then keep Christianity out as well.
There’s been commentary made by the people involved that posting the Ten Commandments isn’t religious, it’s there to show the original laws.
BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Louisiana has become the first state to require that the Ten Commandments be displayed in every public school classroom, the latest move from a GOP-dominated Legislature pushing a conservative agenda under a new governor.
The legislation that Republican Gov. Jeff Landry signed into law on Wednesday requires a poster-sized display of the Ten Commandments in “large, easily readable font” in all public classrooms, from kindergarten to state-funded universities.
“If you want to respect the rule of law, you’ve got to start from the original lawgiver, which was Moses” who got the commandments from God, Landry said.
There are so many things wrong with this, that I had a hard time finding a place to begin.
Let’s start with Landry’s statement. Moses is not the “original lawgiver” in Judaism, Christianity, or any other religion. He’s definitely not an original lawgiver in America. Anyone who’s actually read the Bible, the entire Bible, knows that there were many lawgivers before Moses. It’s well documented, both in and out of the Bible and Torah.
Where DO American laws come from? Because as Americans, where other people’s laws come from don’t really matter. We’re Americans, and where OUR laws come from is important, yes.
“In the United States, the law is derived from five sources: constitutional law, statutory law, treaties, administrative regulations, and the common law (which includes case law).” — Wikipedia
Constitutional law obviously comes from our Constitution. That’s not the Commandments. Statutory law is created and codified by our Legislator. Again, not the Commandments. Administrative regulations have to do with how the Executive Branch of government works, so there’s nothing about Commandments there. Common law, one might argue, does brush against the Commandments, because English law is derived from Kings and Queens, and the Legislature of the British Empire, which is legally Christian. But common law in America is based on American decisions. Our judges can look at cases in other countries, but it’s what happens here, in America that matters.
So American laws have little to nothing to do with the Jewish Decalogue or the Christian Ten Commandments.
The particular text of the Ten Commandments that Landry has mandated must be posted in all schools, at all levels, appears to be a variant of the King James version (AP). It reads thus:
The Ten Commandments
I AM the LORD thy God.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Thou shalt not make to thyself any graven images.
Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s house. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his cattle, nor anything that is thy neighbor’s.
This is very different from the original Decalogue. I miss our Redneck Jew right now, because I’d love to have the original Hebrew posted, but because I don’t read Hebrew, I cannot be 100% certain that any text I print is correct. Therefore I’ll refrain. You’re all welcome to go look up the zillion slightly different texts on BibleGateway, if you wish. That’s just Christian versions, of course, but it gives you a good idea of the differing views even among Christians.
The most important thing to note about the above is that it was given to Moses by God. Sometime later, God rescinded those laws for non-Jews, by sending Jesus to the Earth. Jesus brought his own set of Commandments, as the Son of God and the voice of God on Earth.
Jesus was asked: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments,” (Matt 22:36-40, Amp). (Trusting in Jesus)
He also said to render unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar, but that’s another story entirely. Regardless, it seems to me that the Commandments have nothing to do with American law, lawgivers, or citizens. The fact that many private citizens of America happen to be Christian does not change the fact that our laws are not based on these Commandments (or any other version, quite frankly).
Now I want to look at a couple in particular. “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.” As a pagan, I obviously don’t think it’s right to indoctrinate children with that first one. Please note, I follow my own rules. I don’t allow those under 18 to come to my religious services unless they are accompanied by a parent or guardian who I speak with prior to the service. There simply is no reason for unaccompanied minors to come to my religious festivals. I’m not brash enough to suggest that Christian churches would do well to follow in my footsteps, but it’s what *I* do. Regardless, different Americans worship different Gods. Christians may not like it, but the Constitution codifies the right for us to do so. Oh, that Commandment also highlights the fact that early Jews believed in multiple Gods. The Constitution acknowledges the right of all Americans to worship who and where and how they wish (with a few caveats about not sacrificing people and such).
When it comes to “graven images” we have to look into history and religion. The original Jewish Commandment is most usually translated to mean any carved, cast, or hewn image purporting to show God. The golden calf made by Aaron while Moses was up the mountain is a good example. In that exact same vein, images of Jesus would also be considered graven images, if the Ten Commandments were being followed by today’s Christians. Also perfectly legal in America.
Taking the Lord’s name in vain… Well, considering how often that happens on this blog and amongst people of all types, I don’t even feel a need to comment. Whether you believe in following it or not, we’re all failing this one. And it isn’t illegal to do so in America.
Honoring your mother and father is an interesting one. Yes, it’s a good idea in most cases. However, with the number of horrendous parents out there today, I’m not so sure it’s the right thing to post in a classroom. I know if you’d told me to honor my abusive mother, I would have just sobbed in a corner and shut down. In fact, I did just that when I was learning about Christianity as a young teen. Certainly there are so many woke parents that probably don’t deserve to be honored. And once more… not illegal to dis your parents, here in America.
Thou shalt not kill… except during war, or if someone attacks you, or or or… The original translates better to “murder” than “kill” and there are reasons for that. Murder is a crime, but killing is sometimes necessary. And in America, murder is illegal, but killing isn’t always murder. A very difficult and complex thing for elementary kids to learn.
Adultery. Okay, so let me be really blunt here. I don’t want little kids learning about adultery. That’s right up there with drag queens reading in schools. There is NO REASON for a child to learn about adultery from a school teacher! Leaving that aside, adultery might have been illegal back in Biblical times, but it isn’t today. Of course, back then, having more than one wife was okay, and THAT is illegal today. What message are we sending when our political leaders are committing adultery and it’s well known? Still, it’s not illegal to commit adultery in America.
Bearing false witness seems to be the standard today. It’s illegal in America and yet it’s done daily. I got nuthin’. I’m pretty certain most people today don’t even know what coveting is, and I know they do it all the time, and once more, not illegal in America.
What does it say to kids when we post the Ten Commandments in a classroom, and then have to field questions about it and teach about it and how it affects the country “historically,” when the history doesn’t stand the sniff test? “Hi kids, I’m going to be talking about the Commandments today, and how important they are to US law and history. Only I can’t mention some of them because they’re too adult, and the rest are usually broken in public on the regular, but you should ignore that.”
If you want to read the text of the law, feel free. You can find it on the Louisiana State Legislature website (click on “text” to take you to it). Please don’t take this on my statements alone. Do your homework.
I should note, HB71 says that the Commandments were part of schooling for almost three centuries. I don’t see that as something that matters. Beating children (real beatings, not Gibbs smacks) was part of schooling for almost three centuries, too, and we don’t do that anymore. Being a history nerd, I can tell you why they used the Bible as part of their schooling. It was the only book that was likely to be in most households. Therefore, a teacher could assign reading from the Bible and be relatively certain that a student would at the very least have access to one, even if they didn’t own one. No other book, prior to the mid-1800s, could be assumed to be owned by any student’s family. Also, mandated schooling (which began in my State, New Hampshire, I might add) was pushed by the early Protestants, because they felt everyone should have enough education to read the Bible. So yes, that early indoctrination was definitely there. But so was hatred for Jews and slaves, Asians, Mexicans… things we’ve overcome (mostly). Something being old is not a reason for keeping it around.
I’m horrified with Louisiana and other states enacting laws like these. The right to travel and the right to be free from indoctrination by the government are enshrined in our founding documents. Watching that be eroded is painful and wrong.
Comments
10 responses to “Thou Shalt Not…”
Freedom of religion means ALL religions – and there are some that LA might not approve of or be comfortable with
the only beef I ever had with religion and schools was my high school had multiple copies of the SATANIC bible and zero copies of the HOLY bible..
imho religion should be a private thing not public
Indeed. If you’re going to allow one, you have to allow all. If you’re going to disallow one, you have to disallow all.
IIRC, Kansas tried something similar some years ago and hence was born Pastafarianism.
Pastafarianism. Would that be the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
All fair points. The one about “kill” vs. “murder” is an excellent one; there’s a massive legal and doctrinal difference between the two. Heck, there’s a passage — Exodus 22: 2-3 — that says if a thief breaking in at night is struck and dies, it is not murder; but if it happens in daylight (or “if the sun has risen upon him” in KJV and ESV), it is murder and restitution shall be paid.
The difference is this: The thief broke in at night. If he’s struck and killed in the house, it’s not murder. But if the thief leaves and is caught later — say, during the day, after the sun has risen — and struck and killed, it is murder. The thief dies either way, but only one is murder; Old Testament law recognized the difference between catching a thief in your home and acting in self-defense, and catching him later when it’s no longer self-defense. (Now, if only American States’ laws could see that difference.)
But here’s the part about the legislation I don’t understand: The legislation … requires a poster-sized display of the Ten Commandments in “large, easily readable font” in all public classrooms, from kindergarten to state-funded universities.
It mandates a “large, easily readable font”, but by choosing the King James Version (KJV) it also mandates the hardest-to-read language it probably could.
One of the big criticisms of the KJV in the modern era is simply that it’s “Old English” — which people just don’t speak anymore — and carries a lot of idiosyncrasies and colloquialisms that are no longer in common use. “Graven image” is one example; when the KJV was commissioned and written, the phrase was probably much more well-understood than it is now. I’ve heard it interpreted to mean anything from an image of God, Jesus, and/or the Holy Spirit; to an image of anyone who has passed away; to an image of the living who will eventually pass away — regardless of the method by which the image is created. (The Amish who live in my area do NOT appreciate having their picture taken!)
Some churches and pastors go so far as to say that it no longer means anything important, which begs the question: Scripture is supposed to be timeless, applicable to all generations. If that phrase would become unimportant, why was it ever included in Scripture in the first place? And in a Commandment issued directly from God to Moses, no less!
It’s not that we can’t research and learn what any given phrase means — we certainly can — but what school-child is going to do that research?
Anyway, my point is, if the law emphasizes that the Ten Commandments shall be posted in a “large, easily readable font”, they could have chosen a more easily readable and understandable version — the NIV, perhaps, which is the version children’s Bible quizzing organizations typically use. But they didn’t.
It just makes me question how serious the lawmakers are about having them posted, ostensibly for students’ use and reference.
I think it was Jordan Peterson, or perhaps it was Dennis Prager, who said that the 10 Commandments was not anyone handing down laws.
The laws already existed, and the people already knew about them. The story about Moses bringing them down from the mountain is just memorializing them in stone.
The example/analogy they used was:
Watch some kids start playing a game. No rules to start off with, they just started playing/running/throwing something around, whatever. Naturally, they start acting in some kind of order, they start “obeying the rules” so to speak. No one sat down and said the rules, they just happened.
Same with the 10 Commandments. Everyone already knew stealing was bad, and murdering people was bad, and lying was bad. It was just not enshrined in a religious text.
If someone put the last six commandments on the wall and call them “Rules of behavior” no one alive would have any problem with them whatsoever. (You could almost add #3 as a potential rule)
RULES OF BEHAVIOR:
1. No foul language allowed. (Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain)
2. Respect and obey the teacher/executive. (Honor your father and mother.)
3. Fighting in any way is not tolerated (Thou shalt not murder)
4. Honor your commitments, do what you say you are going to do (Thou shalt not commit adultery.)
5 No stealing. (Thou shalt not steal. )
6. No lying (Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. )
7. Jealousy is not allowed, just because someone else has it, does not mean you should too. (Thou shall not covet your neighbor. )
Remove the “God” commandments, and they are not religious at all. Added note, there is not a religion that I know of that does not have some kind of “behave this way” text. The Jews have it, the Christians have it, the muslims have it, and I am pretty sure the far eastern religions have it as well. (Although, I am not familiar with them at all.)
The Commandments are not in an upon themselves divisive. It is people who assign meaning to them that is devisive.
I’ve had similar conversations with AWA before, about the meaning behind most of the Commandments. If someone wanted to post up classroom rules, I’d be fine with the seven you have there. I’d first like to see classroom rules that actually work, though. At the moment, classrooms are jungles full of short terrorists who have no self control and who abhor intelligence. But I don’t think that posting a particular religion’s version (and that’s exactly what the Louisiana law is, it’s a very specific flavor of Christianity’s version of the Commandments) is right. It’s definitely not Constitutional, by my own understanding, but it also gives a power to the State that doesn’t belong to the State. That’s just simply wrong.
I think it’s something far worse.
People refuse to even think about how it’s worse than merely the possibility of “the Other”‘s religious displays being in a taxpayer-funded school, or whose interpretation of some particular religious scripture is “correct”. I would say that they’re violating a far more fundamental principle.
There’s a name for the act of forcibly seizing a citizen’s funds via taxation and deploying such to fund religious activity. It’s called “imposition of jizya”. And free people of ANY kind *really don’t like* being dhimmified, and doubly so if aforementioned jizya is imposed in the name of someone else’s religion!
The thing is, this isn’t money seized via taxation. They specify that in their law. It can be donated, someone can give money to purchase it, teachers can do so, etc… But it should NOT come from school operating budget. That’s how the law is meant to get around some of the caveats that would nominally take it out.